God Jesus verses religion over coming power control of religions
74Bad religion vs God's word
Answering question of God vs religion, and how to escape religious control
This is an interesting question that was raised: God verses religion. Religion was created to supposedly help us worship God, but religion sometimes takes control. I believe most religions start with the object of focusing on God, and worshiping him. Somewhere along the way the religious leaders and the congregation loose focus of God, and start to focus on what they believe should and should not be done.
This is not a recent problem either. Even Jesus had this problem with the religious leaders of his day. One of the major problems Jesus saw was the the leaders took over the worship of God, and created it into what they wanted it to be. Weather this was done to have control over the people, or that they themselves actually got so lost in what they perceived as the law that they lost sight of what they were suppose to be doing.
We know that the religious leaders in Jesus time got so bad in creating their man made religion that they lost sight of what they were suppose to be doing. I suspect they were not corrupt at the beginning. By the time Jesus arrived on the scene, God was not really in it any longer. There were many more man made laws they crated, than what God actually revealed to them. These laws became so many, that most people lost sight as to what God really wanted. By that time, they may not have really cared when Jesus stood up to them.
Yes, we still have this same problem in today's society as well where man's religious laws over rides God's laws. We loose focus of God and what He wants. We loose focus of why we are worshiping God and Jesus. There are some religious leaders who use God and Jesus to control the congregation, and to increase their wealth.
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At the same time, there are those leaders who have a heart for God, and what God wants. They are leading their people in the right direction, and practicing and doing what Jesus taught. Now the question becomes how to discern the ones who are following after God's heart, and those who are out for themselves.
The best way I know how to do this is to read your Bible. Get to know God's words well. Don't be afraid to question what your pastor is saying. Please, don't stand up in the middle of service, and confront Him then and there. The best way I believe to do this is to make notes in church. When you are at home, look up all the scriptures he mentioned. Do a study of what the pastor is saying. I personally would start with a Google search.
What I look for in this search is there other scripture to back up what was being spoken about. I believe the Bible will always back it self up. Where the idea came from in the first place. Did it come from a strong teaching in the Bible, several quotes scattered throughout the Bible, or from only one or two verses? Is it a repeating theme throughout the Bible?
I am very weary when someone claims the Bible says something, but really can not back it up. I'm also weary when someone says you have to be a scholar/theologian to really know what the Bible says. I beleive God created the Bible so everyone could read and understand His word. I do believe He can have multiple meanings in a verse. I do not believe that those meanings will be so well hidden that it would actually change the basic meaning of the verse when it is read.
This is also where we get many conflicts as to what the Bible actually says such as once saved always saved verses you can backslide and fall out of grace and salvation. This is where you really need to do your own research on what the Bible says with an open mind. Don't make the Bible say what you want it to say, but see what it is actually telling you. Once you know what the Bible says on that subject, and have it in your heart, no one can deceive you.
Sometimes it is hard to tell which religion or religious leader is following God. Learn from the past. Unfortunately some religions that may have been around for a very long time may be the ones that have lost focus, and use their religion to control the flock so to speak. Don't forget that some pastors start out with the intention of controlling and using the God's word to gain wealth.
The best way to get out from under the control of religion is to know God's words. If the religion or leader of your church practices God's words, does not have you practicing things the Bible tells you not to do, and does not have you doing things that are not even talked about in the Bile to get saved, repent, and living the life Jesus wants you to, then you know you are in the right place. If you find out that the church you are in does have you practicing things that are against God's word, then leave that church and/or religion, and find somewhere that does practice and preach God's word.
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Actually the Old Testament and New Testament is the Bible. The Old Testament deals with life and God's word before Jesus was born. The New Testament deals with the life of Jesus and his teachings that complement the Old Testament.
The religious leaders when Jesus was alive went by the Torah which is the first five books of the Old Testament, which was known as God's words then. Those leaders had a long time to transform what God wanted them to do to a man made religion that left God out and get Jesus angry.
The New Testament was written after Jesus death. Today we have the Old Testament and New Testament to go by, and also have had a long time to transform God's and Jesus' word into a man made religion, which still gets Jesus angry.
You are so right I have lived fifty years of religions ita to costlyin human lives. God Jesus teach only healing and peace this concepts has been lost greay article
Great Hub,
I love hearing about religions. Satan's plan is to destroy religion. He first starts with one little item, and then it grows, until the religion(s) lose there way. That is why so many religions teach conflicting teachings. I don't blame many athiest because they see it is has confussion. You have to know God's truth. I have a few hubs on these items, and I will be releasing more.
Thanks for you confiction and love towards our Savior.
Keep on Hubbing, and Praying!
Actually I'm tired about hearing about religions.
All the discussion takes up so much time and energy and hurts relationships.
It would be good if we got to know the God of the Universe by studying about Him.
If we study diligently, He will reveal His truth to us and all the confusion will slowly go away. Sometimes we have to study the writings of a "religion" to figure out something about what God is not.
But the religions themselves can end up making us slaves to rules and laws instead living in the freedom of God's love purchased for us by Jesus.
A good book to read: "A Severe Mercy"
Jesus didn't get angry in the bible, why is he angry now.
Actually, he did. Not very many times. One was when he turned over the money changers tables in the temple. A person isn't being real nice when they turn over a table let alone a table some one else is using.
Based on what the hub is talking about Jesus was angry with the scribes and Pharisees calling them hypocrites several times, snakes, and vipers all within Matthew 23:23-33. He was not being nice. You might be able to read that passage, and imagine he is just delivering a speach, but he isn't.
You don't call people names calmy or nicely. Actually Jesus did worse than just call them names. He basically called them demons, devils, satan the worst thing you could call a religious leader. Snakes and vipers is referring back to satan in the garden of Eden. There is nothing nice about him saying these things to the religious leaders of his time.
Hyprocrite doesn't have the punch today as I believe it did back then. Today what would have the punch is calling someone a moron, idiot, a explective and/or series of explictives of choice. You know people can get very rude, crude, and mean when using them.
I see Jesus getting very angry, but not being so much as rude and crude. For Jesus to use woe four times is also very serious. Woe is also used in Revelations as a warning before the wrath of God lands on us.
How do you think your pastor who everyone else respects is going to react if you called him a devil? Better be perpared for some type of fight, right? What type of mind frame would you need to even think you would need to be in to have the guall to go up to him and tell him that? Then to be perpared for the reaction of not only the pastor, but those around him also. Ready to fight yet, at least a verbal fight. Verbal fights can get highly intense.
That same type of anger he had towards the scribes and Pharisees for leading the people away from God, he would still have today towards any pastor, and religious leader who is also leading people away from Him.
Jesus isn't just all love as some pastors would have you believe. Remember he is God. God does and can get angry. The Bible doesn't warn against his wrath for nothing.
Look at human life on earth today? look at the wat hatred inhumanity? the human suffering on earth?
Hmmmmm... Religion is man's way to God which has gotten out of hand! You said it well here: "One of the major problems Jesus saw was the the leaders took over the worship of God, and created it into what they wanted it to be. This is a GREAT HUB presentation! I pray it opens eyes and hearts! Keep reaching out!!!!!!!!!
Thank you very much.
I like your interest on following God's Truth above all. But one question was raised while I was reading. I can ask my pastor to support his teachings. But what I can not do is to ask the Church Leaders of the years 100,200,300 A.D. how they were so sure on how to decide what books should be declared the Word of God. I can not ask why we have the Bible as it is. Do I have to make an exception here and believe that they were not under any spirit of corruption?
In this you do need to do your own research on how the Bible came to be. Who decided which books stay and go. I know I did some research on it, and I remember reading a group of men from what would have been the Catholic church at the time determined which books were suppose to be in the Bible. The apocrypha was excluded from the Bible for awhile, and then reinstated by the Catholic church.
Are they suppose to be there? I can not say for sure. I know the Book of Revelations almost didn't make it into what we know as the Bible today. The Book of Enoch almost did.
Here is something interesting. The Catholic church believes and teaches in purgatory. The Bible as it stands does not mention purgatory at all. If it does, only in a very vague way. I read some of the Book of Enoch, and that book supports purgatory. It shows where people would go depending on which type of sin was dominate in their lives.
The Book of Enoch doesn't support the ideas in the New Testament of repentance, forgiveness, and salvation by grace not by works. Since it is the Book of Enoch, maybe that is what we would have had to look forward to before Jesus died for our sins. I believe the Book of Enoch would have been part of the Old Testament.
There is one other thing to consider here. The Bible has survived centuries of Emperors, kings, and various rulers trying to destroy it in its entirety. After Jesus died, the Christians were hunted down and killed, and I would believe that any letters, writings, or anything that was written to proclaim the faith was also burned and destroyed.
I do believe God had His hands on keeping His word in basic form as he wanted it from being destroyed. Right now we do have the Bible as it is now. There are many different versions of it. Some believe that new versions destroy what is actually being said, and what is actually meant. For example, some claim the NIV removes the Holy Spirit, and makes him into a spirit. This could fall into more New Age ideas where God is not a person, but a spirit that flows through everything. It is more of an energy source than a physical being.
The first thing you need to decide is which version of the Bible are you going to adhere to. I tend to stay with the KJV, and sometimes refer to other versions. I always go back to the KJV if there seems to be a conflict in what is being said.
I guess by that argument, the KJV could be corrupted itself by people adding and subtracting words. It all deals with which original writings the Hebrew or Greek it was translated from. It gets complicated. From my research I believe the person who wrote the original KJV did a good job with what he had at the time.
I know there are some today that say the interpretation got messed up. People like Michael Rood from Rood Awakenings are going back over the original Hebrew writings. Some of what he says makes sense.
It may all be a part of a larger plan of God to have hidden some things that are not to be revealed until a certain time. He may send people out to give the proper interpretation of the Bible. I think if and when that happens, I hope God will make it clear that it is his will and not some nut job trying to reinterpret the Bible for their own benefit.
I know there would be many who would disagree with me on this. I would go ahead and do a Google search for the other so called lost books of the Bible. I don't see the harm in reading them as long as you have a good foundation in the Bible itself. Whether or not they are suppose to be in the original Bible, I can not say.
I would think at the very least, it would give more insight to the times in which the people of the Bible lived, and insight into their imagination. The Book of Enoch could be either A) suppose to be a part of the Bible or B) a good work of science fiction during that time period.
From here on in above all else, ask God what was suppose to be included in His word. He inscribed his word into your heart already. The holy Ghost can guide you. I know sometimes it all seems impossible to comprehend. That so many people through out history could have tampered with the Bible in the worst way, and thrown many of the writings out.
Even if that were all true. A really amazing thing happened. We ended up with a God that cares for us so deeply that he sent his only son to die for us. Jesus died on the cross for our sins sacrificing his life, even though he had second thoughts in the garden. Because he did, he gave us the gift of salvation, so we could join him in heaven when the time came.
In all other religions, when has a god sacrificed himself for the sake of humanity?
We ended up with something that changed our thoughts, beliefs, and behaviors for the better to be more caring and compassionate towards one another. Many times we give of ourselves because our God gave of himself. You can say this is one God that has taught us by example in the New Testament and not dictate.
For those who hold their claim there is no God, this religion has given many people over the years, decades, and centuries a new and a better way to live. Most importantly a new hope in their lives where all hope was once lost.
Think of all these things, do your research, and let God lead you on your journey.
"I remember reading a group of men from what would have been the Catholic church at the time determined which books were suppose to be in the Bible."
I agree, the Church do it, not God. Look it up in any christian book of Systematic Theology. That is not a mystery.
Koran also proclaim it was reveal by God. I could say: that I believe God is so great that preserve the Koran so our life can be sanctified in the truth. God send Mohammed to save us from the religious lies.
Have you read the koran with the same intensity you read the bible?
How you know you do not like french fries if you have never ate them. MAy be you should read that book. How you know God do not demands that from you?
Why other religion can not proclaim the same beliefs? They all are based in something untouchable: Faith. There is no difference between believing by faith in the bible, than believing by faith in the koran. Faith do not follow rational arguments. So if you believe the bible by faith, then there is no sense in trying to use rational arguments to defend it over other religions books, since you only believe in it by faith.
PD-Let me make my self clear. I am not questioning your God experience. I believe it is real as the air we breath and the water we drink. I am not denying God either since I believe in him with all my heart. I am questioning the validity of your arguments, the same way early christian did. I hope you do not get offended by my post here. I hope we can maintain a friendly discussion.
Remember you said :Religion can take away God's word. I agree with you. That is my whole point. They did it with the Bible too.
I deleted the duplicate posts. Got to love the feature that lets author moderate the posts.
I admit I really haven't read the Koran, and don't desire to. If the Islams whom practice what the Koran teaches is any indication of what is in the Koran, then I don't want a part of it. Many Islams protray it as a harsh and hateful religion. Why would I want any part of that?
I know there is one difference between the Koran and the Bible. The Bible proclaims that Jesus is the Son of God, and the Koran claims Jesus was just a prophet. That is a major difference.
If I was to reject the Bible and was looking at another religion, then I would admit I would be much quicker to pick up new age religion. From everything I have seen and read about the new age religion, preaches peace and getting along with others. It doesn't give hope the way God's word does.
I don't put my faith in the Bible as much as I put it in Jesus and that he is the Son of God. I have not seen another religion that acknowledges that, and also, acknowledges that his gift of slavation is the only way to heaven.
Granted it has to be believed by faith. A person can have faith in anything. That is why God needs to lead the person who is searching towards faith. People come to faith in many different ways.
I believe God perserved enough of his word from those religious leaders, so we can know Him. If a person believes the Bible is just a collection of mans written works made to control others, then what is there to believe in? No matter what holy book or religion was being looked at, it is all mens words made to control others. Then there is no need for faith. God is some impersonal entity/enegry floating about out there if he exists at all.
If a person is looking for God, it all comes back to a personal journey to find him. And a personal journey to decide which direction the person believes they are being led toward.
There are many things I can't explain. Many things others have found out about the Bible that proves to them that it is the real word of God. Different people need different types of proof. It is not for me to convince to a person the Bible or Jesus is real. That is God's job. I only tell others about Jesus if they want to hear, and I lay the rest in God's hands.
Hi, apologies for telling you, but as a long time typesetter I proof read automatically...
Third para first line; We do that the religious leaders in Jesus time..... is this missing 'know'? - judging from your comments above, some of your readers could get confused.
But aside from that, great hub and you have obviously spent time studying to be approved, with a Berean zeal!
Not many folk find Michael Rood!
I have read the Quran and if I had read that BEFORE coming to faith, it would have captivated me, however when you know Christ and have studied the word, you can see the god that Mohammed is talking to cannot be the God who wrote the Torah and the Gospels, there are significant differences of authorship (it's that old typesetter again)- besides which... God's typesetting instructions in Revelations tell everyone not to add nor take away from the words of the book (maybe that's why Revelations made it into the canon?)
Stay Blessed.
John
BTW, delete this if you want to, it's for you, not the world.
Hi there
The best way to know if your are hearing the correct message is to measure what they proclaim about Jesus Christ and him being Gods Grace bestowed on mankind. This is also our resposibility not to partake in assemblies and congregations that do not magnify the Lord. I mostly do this when I listen to preachers, and try count the times they actually talk about Jesus, ......is this not the Gospel we want to hear.
Ga:1:6: I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Ga:1:7: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Ga:1:8: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Go well
Test the spirit by the spirit. "But the time is coming and is already here when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for anyone who will worship Him that way. For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in Spirit and in truth." John 4:23-24.
Great message, very timely indeed. And I agree 100% with HOOWANTSTONO as he quoted from Galatians. Peace n' Blessings! ~K
This discussion alone is revelation of GOD JESUS and yes the HOLY SPIRIT. He said you will know them by their fruis and for someone to speak words that were spoken to you in your prayer closet is evident that if we serve the same GOD we should be on the same page. And to go back to a comment that was made this was the most frequent reason for Jesus anger in the bible. It struck HIM more than odd that his very disciples did not register most of what HE was trying to say to the mulititudes, and they were closes to HIM. And still till this day we focus so much on who may be the highest in our intelligenccee we are not paying attention to what Jesus is telling us. Imagine how HE feels about our ignorance HE went from exsiting with us as a higher being to clothing himself with this old flesh so we could look into HIS eyes and see HIS pain to actually RESIDING in our hearts INSIDE our bodies and we still have no connection. FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT.
I so appreciate this message, as an ex-Jehovah's Witness! So much truth here! Thanks for this awesome hub! You nailed it! =)
issues veritas 3 years ago
There are two basic versions of the Bible, the Old Testament and the New Testament. Which one are you referring to in your hub?